Comments on: Inquiries 2.0 http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/ Design by Ben Crothers of Catch Media Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:51:50 +1000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Club Troppo » National information policy redux http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-9500 Club Troppo » National information policy redux Sun, 07 Mar 2010 04:06:57 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-9500 [...] The same goes for reputations in markets for important professional services, like medicine.  We’re starting to do it for schools.  And we already have the information to do much more in tertiary education. [...] [...] The same goes for reputations in markets for important professional services, like medicine.  We’re starting to do it for schools.  And we already have the information to do much more in tertiary education. [...]

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By: BTalk Australia Interview | Government 2.0 Taskforce http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-5630 BTalk Australia Interview | Government 2.0 Taskforce Thu, 10 Dec 2009 03:21:30 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-5630 [...] information, government use of Web 2.0, and my own series of  Inquiries 2.0 blog posts (parts one, two and three). You can listen to the interview at the link above, or stream it through the player [...] [...] information, government use of Web 2.0, and my own series of  Inquiries 2.0 blog posts (parts one, two and three). You can listen to the interview at the link above, or stream it through the player [...]

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By: Jeremy Yuille http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-3809 Jeremy Yuille Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:39:54 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-3809 It's the older post, but I think the relevant conversation is here, so I'll add my 2c here.. The inquiry is a great place to prototype ways technology can help make gov more civilized. It's also a good place to prototype the practices this kind of technology stack implies, and the mental models it eventually demands. Some things that spring to mind in response to the conversation here include: Social Objects - in one sense the suggestion here is to framework inquiry submissions as social objects, so here's some things I've found helpful wrt that: <blockquote>Social Net­works are built around Social Objects, not vice versa. The lat­ter act as “nodes”. The nodes appear before the net­work does.</blockquote> - <a href="http://gapingvoid.com/2007/10/24/more-thoughts-on-social-objects/" rel="nofollow">Hugh Macleod</a> <blockquote>How well does the potential object yield itself to breaking it down to structured data? ... How much social gravitational pull does the object have? Complex social objects offer a lot of handles for discussion.</blockquote> - <a href="http://www.zengestrom.com/blog/2007/08/what-makes-a-go.html" rel="nofollow">Jyri Engeström</a> so - like we were discussing yesterday, maybe you can find a way to get an inquiry to prototype this kind of citizen interaction.. I know I'd certainly be interested to see what kind of behaviours, practices and beliefs were uncovered, challenged and created :) It’s the older post, but I think the relevant conversation is here, so I’ll add my 2c here..

The inquiry is a great place to prototype ways technology can help make gov more civilized. It’s also a good place to prototype the practices this kind of technology stack implies, and the mental models it eventually demands.

Some things that spring to mind in response to the conversation here include:

Social Objects – in one sense the suggestion here is to framework inquiry submissions as social objects, so here’s some things I’ve found helpful wrt that:

Social Net­works are built around Social Objects, not vice versa. The lat­ter act as “nodes”. The nodes appear before the net­work does.

- Hugh Macleod

How well does the potential object yield itself to breaking it down to structured data?

How much social gravitational pull does the object have? Complex social objects offer a lot of handles for discussion.

- Jyri Engeström

so – like we were discussing yesterday, maybe you can find a way to get an inquiry to prototype this kind of citizen interaction.. I know I’d certainly be interested to see what kind of behaviours, practices and beliefs were uncovered, challenged and created :)

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By: Nicholas Gruen http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-2109 Nicholas Gruen Thu, 08 Oct 2009 04:25:22 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-2109 Well well well. I just got this email from the Henry Review - I'm a subscriber to their email service. <blockquote>The following information has been released by Australia's Future Tax System Review Panel: Search function: Australia's Future Tax System Review website has a new search function. This function allows you to search all submissions, publications, speeches and papers on the website. </blockquote> So plaudits to the review and its team. It would be nice to think we had something to do with this, but if not, perhaps even more plaudits are in order. Well well well.

I just got this email from the Henry Review – I’m a subscriber to their email service.

The following information has been released by Australia’s Future Tax System Review Panel:

Search function:
Australia’s Future Tax System Review website has a new search function. This function allows you to search all submissions, publications, speeches and papers on the website.

So plaudits to the review and its team. It would be nice to think we had something to do with this, but if not, perhaps even more plaudits are in order.

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By: Nicholas Gruen http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1186 Nicholas Gruen Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:18:31 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-1186 The 'free speech' meme can be a bit overdone on blogs - both here and elsewhere. I'm not really taking sides on this debate, because it's too hard to be cut and dried about it - I think Andrea's comment lamenting the 'permission' culture we've got ourselves into makes a lot of sense. But the fact is that the internet is a very open place. After some early worrying about free speech in moderation debates (I'm talking about the private blog I contribute to - <a href="http://www.clubtroppo.com.au" rel="nofollow">ClubTroppo</a>) I've never bothered about the free speech argument very much in the private blogosphere - because people can have their say anywhere. With 'official' things the issue needs to be taken more seriously and would be here. But even so, it's nice to know that if somone opts out of having comments activated on their submission on a government blog site, anyone, anywhere can set up a comments thread and comment away. Btw, Stephen, I noticed you commenting on the lack of nested responses on this blog a while back. Ran into the same problem and investigated. The blog was set to three levels, and is now set to seven . It can go to ten if necessary. Then, as your comments slowly march off the right hand side of your screen you run out of nesting capability - unless you want to write your own WordPress plugin. The ‘free speech’ meme can be a bit overdone on blogs – both here and elsewhere. I’m not really taking sides on this debate, because it’s too hard to be cut and dried about it – I think Andrea’s comment lamenting the ‘permission’ culture we’ve got ourselves into makes a lot of sense.

But the fact is that the internet is a very open place. After some early worrying about free speech in moderation debates (I’m talking about the private blog I contribute to – ClubTroppo) I’ve never bothered about the free speech argument very much in the private blogosphere – because people can have their say anywhere. With ‘official’ things the issue needs to be taken more seriously and would be here. But even so, it’s nice to know that if somone opts out of having comments activated on their submission on a government blog site, anyone, anywhere can set up a comments thread and comment away.

Btw, Stephen, I noticed you commenting on the lack of nested responses on this blog a while back. Ran into the same problem and investigated. The blog was set to three levels, and is now set to seven . It can go to ten if necessary. Then, as your comments slowly march off the right hand side of your screen you run out of nesting capability – unless you want to write your own WordPress plugin.

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By: Stephen Collins http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1185 Stephen Collins Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:58:21 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-1185 Definitely speaking mostly for my own submissions. There should be an opt-out choice. Although that's likely to draw questions about why things aren't open... We can't win all these arguments though - compromise is what gets us through. I think openness has the potential to result in more consideration in submissions. Again, time will tell. Definitely speaking mostly for my own submissions.

There should be an opt-out choice. Although that’s likely to draw questions about why things aren’t open… We can’t win all these arguments though – compromise is what gets us through.

I think openness has the potential to result in more consideration in submissions. Again, time will tell.

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By: Craig Thomler http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1181 Craig Thomler Sat, 05 Sep 2009 08:01:47 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-1181 Hi Steve, The two risks I see with mandating that all submissions will be available for comments from others are; this could sometimes politicise the discussion, and; it may reduce the number of submissions received where people are uncomfortable with the notion of having their submission critiqued, due to risk of embarrassment. In the interests of not reducing the level of submissions, I'd suggest that an opt-in or opt-out process would produce the best overall outcome - but there's pros and cons to all approaches. Hi Steve,

The two risks I see with mandating that all submissions will be available for comments from others are; this could sometimes politicise the discussion, and; it may reduce the number of submissions received where people are uncomfortable with the notion of having their submission critiqued, due to risk of embarrassment.

In the interests of not reducing the level of submissions, I’d suggest that an opt-in or opt-out process would produce the best overall outcome – but there’s pros and cons to all approaches.

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By: Des Walsh http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1159 Des Walsh Fri, 04 Sep 2009 00:05:31 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-1159 I'm glad you like common sense and I'm all for it. So I'm for a solution that, as I understood Nicholas was looking at, meant a quick sort and resolve of historic submissions and a couple of rules of engagement for the future. I can see this is an important issue for you but I would personally prefer to see us focus on what I regard as more substantial issues. I’m glad you like common sense and I’m all for it. So I’m for a solution that, as I understood Nicholas was looking at, meant a quick sort and resolve of historic submissions and a couple of rules of engagement for the future. I can see this is an important issue for you but I would personally prefer to see us focus on what I regard as more substantial issues.

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By: Andrae Muys http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1158 Andrae Muys Thu, 03 Sep 2009 23:55:11 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-1158 Yes I do consider the concern absurd. We are talking about public submissions to a public debate surrounding the formulation of a public review of public policy. Where in this is there any reasonable expectation that your submission will be the final word, not subject to ongoing debate and analysis? Of course there may be parties who might see tactical advantage in erecting barriers to public discussion, who may therefore refuse permission if it was sought. My point is not that there is some 'implicit' or 'constructive' permission, rather that the very idea that permission of any kind is required does violence to the essential premise of a public process: that it be public. Our trend towards a permission culture is pernicious. It adds transaction costs that makes it impossible to scale common-sense to Web 2.0, and unless overcome will derail any attempt at Gov 2.0 --- hence my concern at this otherwise inconsequential issue. Yes I do consider the concern absurd. We are talking about public submissions to a public debate surrounding the formulation of a public review of public policy. Where in this is there any reasonable expectation that your submission will be the final word, not subject to ongoing debate and analysis?

Of course there may be parties who might see tactical advantage in erecting barriers to public discussion, who may therefore refuse permission if it was sought. My point is not that there is some ‘implicit’ or ‘constructive’ permission, rather that the very idea that permission of any kind is required does violence to the essential premise of a public process: that it be public.

Our trend towards a permission culture is pernicious. It adds transaction costs that makes it impossible to scale common-sense to Web 2.0, and unless overcome will derail any attempt at Gov 2.0 — hence my concern at this otherwise inconsequential issue.

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By: asa letourneau http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/01/inquiries-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-1149 asa letourneau Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:23:15 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=717#comment-1149 Nicholas, I definitely share Ben's concern regarding the average pollie's talent for game-playing. In addition to this I am also concerned that gov2.0 doesn't end up meaning 'tools for community engagement <em>designed</em> by the government.' To make ideas of transparency and collaboration meaningful we need to use systems and tools that give the public the opportunity to <strong>co-design</strong> public policy, which for many years has been written in isolation. Web2.0 and 3.0, if fully thought out, may provide the 'space' for this to happen. Nicholas, I definitely share Ben’s concern regarding the average pollie’s talent for game-playing. In addition to this I am also concerned that gov2.0 doesn’t end up meaning ‘tools for community engagement designed by the government.’ To make ideas of transparency and collaboration meaningful we need to use systems and tools that give the public the opportunity to co-design public policy, which for many years has been written in isolation. Web2.0 and 3.0, if fully thought out, may provide the ’space’ for this to happen.

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